Trimble Connect: point clouds, 360 images and AI search in one place – Gregor Willhauck, Trimble

0:00Tomáš Barnáš: How many times have you been to INTERGEO?

0:02Gregor Willhauck: Oh, good question. I, I actually don't know. I remember the first time I was. When was it? It was in 2000, and I was just... I had just started, or joined a startup, and we were exhibiting back then the software eCognition, and it was image analysis software. And we were in the middle of, like, equipment providers of, like, tripods, and, like, the, the, the car i- i- interior and, and things like that. So it, it felt, like, very out of place for us. But until now or, or between then and now, INTERGEO makes a lot more sense to me-... and we- we've grown, obviously, quite a bit, so.

0:42Michal Gula: for how long have you been working for Trimble?

0:45Gregor Willhauck: I was... I joined Trimble in 2010 as part of an acquisition. So as I said before, we were in a startup. Trimble acquired that startup.

0:54Michal Gula: Oh, okay.

0:55Gregor Willhauck: Um-

0:55Michal Gula: So it was actually a successful startup.

0:57Gregor Willhauck: It was. It was, actually. Yep. it was, it was a good story. And so 2010, joined Trimble.

1:04Michal Gula: Nice. you, you even- We have Gregor Willhauck here.

1:06Gregor Willhauck: Yeah.

1:07Tomáš Barnáš: A quick introduction. I was practicing in my head.

1:11Gregor Willhauck: Yeah.

1:11Tomáš Barnáš: Thank you for coming here, and, that was actually, like, very interesting beginning. Like, so you were part of startup, which was then acquired.

1:18Gregor Willhauck: Correct. Yeah.

1:19Tomáš Barnáš: Maybe we can just touch it a little bit. Like, what was it exactly?

1:22Gregor Willhauck: Of course. Yeah. actually a, a pretty interesting startup. It was founded in, '95, I think, by, Professor Gerd Binnig, who's a Nobel laureate in physics, and he started the company to focus on analyzing complex problems, let's say. He was, back then, one of the youngest Nobel Prize laureates. He received a Nobel Prize at the age of, I think it was 38. Wow. so it was, it was really an honor and impressive to work in that kind of team. a, a good am- amount of folks are still with Trimble from that original team. And we focused on analyzing satellite data at first, and then expanded that to analyzing LiDAR data, terrestrial laser scanning data. so that's what made us interesting for Trimble. Um-

2:12Michal Gula: Okay. C- can you specify? Because analyzing data, you know-

2:16Gregor Willhauck: Yeah...

2:16Michal Gula: it can be really, like, from health through drugs up to space, like anything, so.

2:21Gregor Willhauck: A- absolutely. And then the, the startup, the name was Definiens at the time, was... It had two, two areas. One was the software eCognition. The other one was a life science start, solution. And the eCognition part was really looking to extract features like trees, forest mass, biomass, rivers, like natural resource or hazards, that kind of, like, really geo information that, that will feed into a GIS mainly. And then down the line, when we started analyzing LiDAR, it was more about detecting, like, lamp poles and, road markings, those kind of things. And, and that part of the business was then acquired by Trimble. The life science part went on for a couple of years more and was finally acquired by AstraZeneca. So-... and there we go. Overall, a pretty good story.

3:14Michal Gula: startups are usually very, very lucky if they get one exit, and you actually got two exits. if, if we are living in a zero-sum game, then you might have made pissed, some other startup-

3:30Gregor Willhauck: Yeah...

3:30Michal Gula: like, pret- pretty, very much.

3:32Gregor Willhauck: But it, it, it took, it took more than 10 years to get there, but it was, it was a good, it was a good 10 years, yeah.

3:37Michal Gula: So, so it was still the development after the, acquirement of, from, from the Trimble?

3:44Gregor Willhauck: Yeah.

3:44Michal Gula: Or were they acquired at the same time?

3:46Gregor Willhauck: No. The, the other group went on for a couple of years. our group was acquired, and then a whole bunch joined Trimble. We continued with that solution, and, and that solution and the technology made its way into a lot of the solutions that Trimble sells now, f- on the, the photogrammetry side, on the, the mobile mapping side, anything that, that extracts information from point clouds, from imagery that, that basically leverages that technology that was purchased back in the days.

4:16Michal Gula: So b- but you went with the startup directly to, to Trimble at the first?

4:20Gregor Willhauck: Correct. Yeah. Okay.

4:21Michal Gula: And you stayed for-

4:23Gregor Willhauck: I stayed with Trimble... ever. Trimble is a, a really good company and interesting company to work for. so when I joined, I was all focused on that s- software eCognition from that startup. Then I sort of quickly was able to expand, looking at other software. I was always in a product management role, so then focusing on the photogrammetry software, the terrestrial laser scanning acquisition software. at the time, we also had a business unit driving airborne laser scanning, so looking into that, and then did that for a couple of years. And then I wanted to switch my focus and started becoming more interested in the hardware side of things, which is obviously a strong area of Trimble. So I then joined a group managing product management for hardware, building rugged handhelds, tablets. Totally different business than, than I used to know. Also was a really good experience. also allowed me to, to move to the US for a while in that role.

5:22Michal Gula: Have you, have you, have you always have been able to pick the direction, pick the product you wanna dedicate your time and-

5:31Gregor Willhauck: Mostly. I mean, obviously, the, the, the speed is not, like, instant, but if you, if you have a goal and you set yourself to it and say, "Hey, this is what I'm really interested in," then Trimble will usually make that happen and, and support it.

5:46Tomáš Barnáš: That's nice. Are, are you still... Like, speaking about startups, is Trimble still looking and scouting in between startups? Or is it more like you're established now, everything is there what you want, and you have own development inside? Or still looking around?

5:59Gregor Willhauck: No, Tri- Trimble's definitely still... scouting. We also have a Trimble Ventures arm, so we're have- actively now investing in startups to, to really stay on top of technology, to, to stay close to the innovation and, definitely still active. maybe not as active when it comes to buying smaller companies. there was a phase in Trimble where that was, done at a really high pace. I think that is not as strong or fast anymore, but at the same time, we're now engaged with many more startups as a, as an investor.

6:36Michal Gula: that's what I was going to ask, because I, I guess, you are not the angel investors in, as a, as a Trimble. So at what stage or what KPIs or what expectations do you have for startups so that you say, "Okay, you're ready to be acquired"?

6:54Gregor Willhauck: That one I actually cannot answer because I'm, I'm not deep enough in that business. so there's a whole arm of Trimble, or a whole group within Trimble called Trimble Ventures that focuses on that. so I can only speculate, so I don't wanna give you an answer on that one.

7:09Michal Gula: Okay. Then, then let's get back to, to your, ca- career be- because you mentioned, like, multiple different devices and software, and solutions that you were, like working with. Which was your favorite?

7:25Gregor Willhauck: that's a tough ask, I think. I mean, at the f- at the time you were looking at it-

7:32Michal Gula: Like, I... To make it easier, like, it does not mean that the other sucks.

7:36Gregor Willhauck: Yeah. Of course.

7:37Michal Gula: I'm just, like, asking you about-... uh-

7:39Tomáš Barnáš: Like a personal opinion.

7:41Michal Gula: Yeah.

7:41Gregor Willhauck: Yeah. No, probably, probably one of the, the really fun ones was we, for a while we had a little group that did, basically skunk works. So we, we, we had a group looking into the really hot new technology on the hardware side, and then out of that came a technology that was a modular hardware platform, which allowed us to bring custom modules onto, like, a tablet or a survey handheld. And this made it from that sort of skunk works team into product-ready stage, is an active part of the portfolio now, and allows us to very flexibly, let's say, reconfigure hardware from different types of communication protocols, like Blue- Bluetooth Low Energy to serial radio type, or, or adding GPS capabilities to a device. and seeing that come out of that skunk works team to reach maturity, that would... was definitely a, a great experience.

8:48Michal Gula: we are almost everybody asking about the Gaussian splats and AI, so feel free to pick, the order, but we, we wanna touch that.

8:57Gregor Willhauck: A- absolutely. And then, I mean, that probably also takes me to my, my current product that I'm focusing on, and, and my, my current favorite thing to focus on. So, so after focusing on hardware, the, the, the focus shifted back to the, the software world, and I started looking more closely at the cloud solutions, starting a couple of years ago. and I'm now responsible for the, the go-to-market for cloud, for field systems. And in Trimble, that means that pretty much we're focusing on Trimble Connect, our platform, and the applications on top of Trimble Connect, and this is where both AI and things like Gaussian splatting come into play. So-

9:43Michal Gula: So, sorry, b- before you go to those-

9:44Gregor Willhauck: Yeah

9:45Michal Gula: when you are mentioning the Trimble Connect, do you have an answer for me? Because I can see companies working with Trimble Connect, even though they don't work with point clouds.

9:56Gregor Willhauck: Yeah.

9:57Michal Gula: They don't know you even use or produce laser scans, right? These are, like, architects, uh-

10:03Gregor Willhauck: Yeah

10:03Michal Gula: engineering companies. How is it possible that they work with Trimble Connect?

10:07Gregor Willhauck: Oh, this is where Trimble Connect originated. So the, the, the background to Trimble Connect is it, it was built to allow architects to realize more complex projects and complex, tasks because it, it started supporting really complex BIM models and bringing that together with what's actually happening on the ground. So, reality capture data was brought into Trimble Connect, a number of years back by our team. Before that, Trimble Connect was really a BIM collaboration environment-

10:41Michal Gula: Okay

10:41Gregor Willhauck: purely focusing on that. it, it really, the focus of Trimble Connect really is to bring together all the data that Trimble creates, Trimble users create, it doesn't need to come from a Trimble solution, and being able to have one place for all the data. And then tools building on top of that data which allow you to understand the data, interact with the data, share, collaborate on the data, and also analyze the data down the line.

11:12Michal Gula: Now we can get to Gaussian splatting.

11:15Gregor Willhauck: And this... Exactly. And this is where Gaussian splats and, and AI come into play. So Gaussian splats, obviously, is, is one of the ways to represent data. So over the last years we focused on first bringing, let's say, the, the, the heaviest data that we could create into Trimble Connect, which was the point clouds combined with the 360 imagery. That's quite, a lot of data, like, volume-wise. So we, we did that, which instantly unlocks a lot of productivity on our customer side, because now they can look at their 3D model. as an example, if you're,.. we have a company, Canam, in Canada building prefabricated walls, which is basically a, a metal construction that w- is put into place, and then concrete is gonna be poured on top so the, the, the metal structure fills up, and then that's creating a wall really quickly. Um- That metal structure needs to sit on rebar. Everything needs to fit. if you, if you have your wall hanging on the crane or your concrete, the, sorry, your metal structure and the rebar doesn't fit, then you have a big problem. You need someone to like either cut it out or, or do so, like fix it. What they do is they create a scan of the site. They put the model in Trimble Connect on top of the scan, look at how everything goes and say, "Okay, here we have an issue. Here we have an issue in there." Send someone out, fix it, and then the wall comes in, and you don't have to wait until the thing is fixed. So this is how we, how we create benefits through point clouds. now the next step obviously is also in our larger civil construction projects, et cetera. we're dealing with a lot of UAV data. representing a UAV through a point cloud can be a bit complex. Representing it through a surface model can take out a bunch of information. Gaussian splats really provide a really good way to visualize that. So that's where we now start creating that type of representation. and the focus then is to bring in the data and allow the user to use like a point cloud, Gaussian splat, mesh surface, what- whatever basically, is best for the job to do.

13:35Tomáš Barnáš: Is the Gaussian splat, processing like fully your development, or you use like third party support if there's something?

13:43Gregor Willhauck: good question. I'm not-

13:45Tomáš Barnáš: Okay

13:45Gregor Willhauck: on top of that. I, I would think we're probably leveraging available capabilities and haven't reinvented the wheel. and it's also to be, to be clear, it's we're, we're... This is some in-development capability. It's not yet out in the wild, but definitely a focus.

14:03Tomáš Barnáš: But, but generally the processing of Gaussian splats is within your pipeline, right?

14:08Gregor Willhauck: That is, that is something-

14:09Tomáš Barnáš: No, no matter whether it's using like third party or-

14:11Gregor Willhauck: Which algorithm is used, yes.

14:12Tomáš Barnáš: Yeah.

14:12Gregor Willhauck: Absolutely. Yep.

14:13Tomáš Barnáš: Okay. then where comes the AI?

14:17Gregor Willhauck: Yeah, that's the, the next step then really is if, if you're looking at what Trimble has assembled with Trimble Connect, it's all your project data basically in, in one space, and the next step is really to better understand what happens with the project, what the status is, where it goes. up to now or currently or previous years, a lot of that was done by basically manually filtering through data, looking at the data, bringing it together through manual processes to understand status, et cetera, creating, issues like a BCF topic to inform someone Now, as we start putting AI agents on top of that data, we can have a whole different way to interact with the data. And rather than saying, creating like a multi-stage filter that says, "Give me all, IFC objects of that type that are larger than this and have an install date of that," I can basically use the Trimble Connect AI, 3D search and say, "Give me all objects, blah, blah, blah, that meet my criteria," and then the agent will search the data.

15:29Michal Gula: Because wha- what you did describe before, like 20 seconds ago, this is basically algorithm. You don't need AI for-

15:36Gregor Willhauck: Exactly. You do the-

15:37Michal Gula: For that

15:37Gregor Willhauck: if better than else.

15:38Michal Gula: Yeah, exactly.

15:39Gregor Willhauck: And creating it is quite cumbersome. So AI allows you to, to expand the way you look into that data, but also makes the, the use of that, or, or creation of that query a lot faster and simpler.

15:52Michal Gula: Ha- have you tried to give it like, some, level of freedom in terms like try to find me, some, mm, like, connections which is no- which are, like, not visible to me right now? Like, like try to find me some causalities in, in those data?

16:12Gregor Willhauck: that's like on a, on another level we're, we're doing that while looking into, let's say the, the use of our platform. So one thing we can, we can do is understand how obviously our product is used, better understanding at, at what time the product is used for what type of tasks. we can, we can also understand better how our customers are using and how are they collaborating on projects. So you can, you can see, for example, when, holiday season starts in Norway, then productivity or, or the use of certain functionality starts going down, things like that. you, you can better understand which type of customers work with which other type of customers. So, so this kind of like ecosystem level understanding is certainly something AI is much better at, at pulling out, understanding, like where do we... might we have gaps, which, which functionality should we improve to basically create more seamless and smooth workflows.

17:16Michal Gula: Do you allow some, like, a co-work with the, with the AI, like to use the Claude, for example, or, or whichever platform to be able to do the tasks for me inside the-

17:30Gregor Willhauck: We're-

17:30Michal Gula: software?

17:31Gregor Willhauck: We're not there yet, so we don't have a, like an MCP-

17:35Michal Gula: Yeah

17:35Gregor Willhauck: or anything yet. but that's certainly the, the future I'm seeing is like if we have all that data and we have all capabilities, that our platform has available through APIs, it's just logic that you would allow that to be handled through like Claude or Cursor and, and- basically develop your solution and, and do that more AI driven than in our current, like, more fixed user interfaces.

18:00Michal Gula: Those are all like software topics, but, for those who couldn't attend INTERGEO, like is there anything new from a hardware side what you brought here?

18:07Gregor Willhauck: Good, good question. And then actually I, I should have focused on that a bit as well. The-... key, the key thing of our company or, or of our platform strategy is obviously to bring the hardware part together with the software, to- together with the, let's say the digital side of the workflow. Because Trimble is active in both sides. We've got software that does your design, your creation of data, your project management, but then we also have that whole field, arm with people in the field with devices, total stations, scanners. So connecting the physical and the digital worlds is the, in a way, the key mission that we have through our platform, because it's also one that really differentiates Trimble from a lot of other platform ga- companies or, or providers because we have that breadth of physical to digital capabilities. now since INTERGEO is really focused on the, probably more physical in the field, type solutions, the, the big announcement on the Trimble side is the ST30 right now, and, and that's a, quite a game changer in productivity for the field crews because it's a, it's an active prism that has, the capability to be actively tracked, has a, GPS on top. So if you're in, like out, out of visualization or out of, line of sight for the instrument, the instrument can still track you because it, it tracks position through the pris- through the GPS. It has an IMU, so you don't have to basically have it, in, in flight and with, with the bubble, which again, makes it a lot faster to capture a point. and it also removes a major source of error that was, available before, which is if you change the height of your, prism, you had to key that in manually into the system. This new system has a laser inside the pole, which is quite the engineering feature, which automatically measures the height. So you can, you can change the height for your prism freely, easily, and, and that basically then allows you to, to be really a lot more efficient than with the previous available versions and capabilities.

20:37Michal Gula: We are really capturing guy, guys by heart, so if you don't see enough, enthusiasm and, and surprise from Peter So, so, so sorry for that.

20:47Tomáš Barnáš: But, but actually I wanted to say that, okay, it's not, your tagline, but I really like these simply clever solutions which are like super easy thing. Like a, like a laser measure tool inside of a pole and you don't have to type it. So it's like- It's not like, like a rocket science, but it helps everybody like extremely-

21:07Gregor Willhauck: Oh, talk to our engineers. It is, it is-... harder than rocket science.

21:10Tomáš Barnáš: Sorry.

21:10Gregor Willhauck: No.

21:11Tomáš Barnáš: I take my words back.

21:14Gregor Willhauck: No, but it is, it is really, the, the, the simplicity in the end for the user is what makes it so, so special, and probably also what made it hard to implement. Because it- it's... the user doesn't know there's a laser in there. It, it just works. but since, since you talked reality capture, I mean, the other area that we're focusing on is obviously bringing the, the data from our big reality capture systems mobile mapping into the cloud. And, and that's one thing that we also have new compared to last INTERGEO, is the ability to visualize, navigate, support large amounts of reality capture data from our mobile mapping systems. So that is also something that's, that's new on the platform right now.

21:59Michal Gula: We have, or, one of our LinkedIn friends has, has counted at this year's INTERGEO, like four to five, SLAM components. Right now, I must admit, I'm not sure whether Trimble does or does not have a SLAM in their line. Can you tell us?

22:18Gregor Willhauck: We have, SiteVision, which is using SLAM based on a, phone. Basically you use an iPhone or a tablet, create a very, let's say, low-tech point cloud, I would say. combine that with a GPS, and that is used a lot in, like, a utility installation. If you have a ditch, you can take SiteVision, walk the site, get a rough, point cloud based on the iPhone scanner, but using SLAM to improve it as well.

22:50Michal Gula: Okay. for the sake of my next question-... we don't count that

22:54Gregor Willhauck: Okay.

22:54Michal Gula: As a SLAM. Okay, so the next question will be, why you don't have a SLAM.

22:59Gregor Willhauck: Why we don't have other SLAM. good question. I think the, the focus traditionally on the, Trimble side was probably more around the terrestrial laser scanning, mobile mapping, um-

23:13Michal Gula: But you know that your biggest competitors like, Hexagon with Leica or FARO and, and so on-

23:19Gregor Willhauck: Yeah

23:19Michal Gula: they all are experimenting with this and-

23:21Gregor Willhauck: A- absolutely

23:22Michal Gula: and trying, so.

23:22Gregor Willhauck: Absolutely.

23:23Michal Gula: Is, is this somewhere on your roadmap, or you wanna specialize on TLS?

23:30Gregor Willhauck: I think, I mean, at a... It's always tough to talk roadmap, especially on the hardware side-

23:34Michal Gula: Yeah

23:34Gregor Willhauck: because it's, harder to, to predict and develop. we're certainly interested in those kind of solutions, I would say.

23:42Michal Gula: The, the roadmap can be sometimes, really just, a web of, junctions.

23:48Gregor Willhauck: Exactly.

23:48Michal Gula: Not really a straight line.

23:49Tomáš Barnáš: Just want some secret information, you know?

23:52Gregor Willhauck: Exactly. And on, on the other hand also, with... If you, if you have a, a very, let's say, high density of solutions, of a certain type, then Trimble very often is also open to just say, "Well, partner with the right people. bring their solution in, and, and focus on, let's say, the, the ecosystem value that Trimble provides around that."

24:16Michal Gula: this might be only our feeling. that's why I'm asking, and maybe you will enlighten us. is this just the feeling, or is it true that the Trimble is more focused or more used in, in States compared to Europe?

24:33Gregor Willhauck: it, it de- it depends on what solution you're looking at. So-

24:37Michal Gula: TLS generally.

24:38Gregor Willhauck: Yeah. Trimble definitely is, being a, a US-based company, is, is very strong there. now from my perspective, for example, if I'm looking at the, the use of cloud, overall, the cloud is more heavily used in the US. If I'm looking at the use of reality capture in the cloud, the Scandinavian countries are way ahead.

25:01Michal Gula: Okay.

25:01Gregor Willhauck: like even by numbers, higher than the US is, even though they are quite smaller. And, and that's just because digital construction is further ahead in, in Scandinavia, and you can see that. You can see that their, big projects, much more active and, and quite successful.

25:17Tomáš Barnáš: And this is a funny point, actually, because we are attending a lot of conferences also in US or, like, across the globe, and we have the same feeling that actually, US side is more focused on the point clouds, and more like-

25:32Michal Gula: Yes

25:32Tomáš Barnáš: scanning.

25:33Michal Gula: Like a, like a tra- traditional-

25:34Tomáš Barnáš: Traditional

25:34Michal Gula: hardcore laser scanning, you know?

25:36Tomáš Barnáš: And, and that, that Europe side is more about reality capturing- and bringing also the visual side of it, so there also this-

25:42Michal Gula: In combination with the photogrammetry and so on, you know.

25:44Tomáš Barnáš: Yeah, yeah.

25:44Michal Gula: So.

25:45Tomáš Barnáš: Which overlaps with that what you just said.

25:47Gregor Willhauck: Yeah, yeah.

25:47Tomáš Barnáš: So yeah, interesting. Good.

25:50Gregor Willhauck: But we're, we're also seeing, like if, if you look at the trend lines, we're seeing the US accelerating or catching up. But it's, it's interesting to see that a relatively comparable small area uses, in a way, more high-tech processes and, and, approaches than the US, which you usually connect more to, to all the innovation.

26:12Michal Gula: I can see when we were first time in, in Boise in, in, at our RCN, conference- we met multiple pe- people, like domestic from US, which were using laser scanning. But, like, the industry is very different, in US compared to Europe. Like-

26:30Gregor Willhauck: Yeah

26:31Michal Gula: many companies are really using it for oil and gas and, and like- like multiple, multiple sites, big industrial plants and everything. We don't have-... such a scale here-

26:41Gregor Willhauck: Yeah, yeah

26:41Michal Gula: in, in Europe, right? So we have many, historical buildings, cultural heritage. So I think that also, like, these are prerequisites for different paths, right? on, on US market and, and European market.

26:55Gregor Willhauck: Yeah, yeah. And then on the, on the digital construction side, obviously the, the legislation is, is a key aspect as well. And in places like Norway, we see that certain projects are only granted if the, the contractor can... basically prove that they're doing, following digital workflows. And, they, they have to meet timelines, they have to meet certain standards that really can only be realized by keeping it fully digital. And, and that's, that's I think what drives that, that difference quite a bit.

27:30Michal Gula: I'm quite often being asked, like, "Which TLS should I buy?" Like, besides questions about the SLAM, but really about-

27:38Gregor Willhauck: Yeah

27:38Michal Gula: the TLS. Like, which brand should I go with? can you give me, like, from the top of your head, like, one thing that you think, sets you apart from the major competitors?

27:50Gregor Willhauck: Well, as, as the cloud guy, I have to say the ecosystem.

27:53Michal Gula: Mm.

27:53Gregor Willhauck: The platform. Because no, really, I mean, the, the, the, the hardware equipment is, in a way, exchangeable. You can, you can use one over the other. Trimble has a lot of benefits with our X9 being able to, to auto-calibrate, to, to register in the field, that- that's a lot of productivity. but in the end, being able to bring all of that into, into one ecosystem and build workflows that go from capturing data in the field to then handing it over to colleagues that collaborate, to then sending it over to your Tekla software for, for modeling, or to SketchUp for modeling, and basically having all of that in one solution, that's what really sets us apart.

28:40Michal Gula: SketchUp is originally your product, or was it acquired, or what's the connection to it?

28:46Gregor Willhauck: SketchUp was acquired in 2010, I think as well, or '11, from Google.

28:52Michal Gula: Yes.

28:52Gregor Willhauck: So Google had, I think, acquired a startup that was SketchUp. The intention was that they would crowdsource all the 3D representation of Earth for Google Earth. so everybody would basically model their house in a simple modeling environment and... But that didn't really happen, and then photogrammetry improved, and it was better looking and easier to just do a really nice detailed 3D mesh from stereo photogrammetry. And then SketchUp sort of wasn't a good fit to the Google portfolio anymore, and-

29:28Michal Gula: S- still it's... because, like, SketchUp looks like a 3D version of a paint on a, on a Microsoft Windows-

29:36Gregor Willhauck: Yeah.

29:36Michal Gula: right? But at the same time, I can see so many professionals using it.

29:41Gregor Willhauck: Yeah.

29:41Michal Gula: Like, especially architects.

29:43Tomáš Barnáš: Architects, yeah.

29:43Michal Gula: O- of course, because for the engineering, you need different tools, but, like, so many architects using. And they are... They don't feel ashamed.

29:52Tomáš Barnáš: But it comes also from a university side, that you see all the students using it. It's like, you know- It's very simple.

29:58Gregor Willhauck: Yeah.

29:59Tomáš Barnáš: It's kind of, they, they are always... Students are always searching for shortcuts, and- this is an easy way to get, solid models, to get the job done, yeah.

30:07Gregor Willhauck: Yeah.

30:07Tomáš Barnáš: To get it done fast.

30:08Gregor Willhauck: And, and again, it's... I think it's a, a part is also, again, the ecosystem topic. Like, you've got the, the 3D warehouse with SketchUp, so, if, if you're building something-

30:19Michal Gula: That's true

30:19Gregor Willhauck: or modeling something, then you can pull in the, the, like the Velux windows and the whatever, components from your manufacturers. You don't have to model that stuff. You can just basically download it and, and place it, and that, that makes you just a lot more efficient.

30:34Michal Gula: It's also easier to understand, like I, I can, I need to, like select the, the line tool and just do the lines of, of the floor plan-

30:45Gregor Willhauck: Yeah

30:45Michal Gula: then pick it up and, and, uh-

30:46Gregor Willhauck: Exactly

30:46Michal Gula: pick up the walls, rather than understanding in other softwares. Like what are parameters for walls? What should I... Which, which type of the wall should I pick up? How to place it and everything else. So.

30:57Gregor Willhauck: Yeah, yeah.

30:57Michal Gula: It makes sense. Still, I, I would consider it, like half professional, professional tool, but-

31:02Gregor Willhauck: Yeah

31:03Michal Gula: but the market is saying something else, so.

31:06Gregor Willhauck: Yeah.

31:06Michal Gula: Okay.

31:06Gregor Willhauck: It's a lot, it's a lot about the usability as well.

31:08Michal Gula: Yes. Yeah.

31:08Gregor Willhauck: Just, just getting, getting into it quickly and easily.

31:12Michal Gula: It was great talk, I think. thank you for coming.

31:16Gregor Willhauck: You're welcome.

31:16Michal Gula: Thank you very much.

31:16Gregor Willhauck: It was, it was great. It was a pleasure.

31:19Michal Gula: Thank you.