RTK in 2026 still feels like a dial-up modem – Igor Vereninov, Emlid

0:00Igor Vereninov: I felt like INTERGEO changed for us, like a lot throughout the years. So the first INTERGEO we were here and, we brought the Reach RS. So that was our first receiver, which is kinda i- in a case, and you can press a button and they go-

0:14Michal Gula: Yeah

0:15Igor Vereninov: and start doing the work. and there were n- like all these GPS brands that you see around now, they did not exist. It was like three big brands, and it was us. And it was either like a 20, $30,000 GPS, or it was a price tag that said 700 euro on it, and a pile of boxes with Reach RSs. so that was punk. Uh-

0:36Michal Gula: That- that's when you made a lot of friends, right?

0:38Igor Vereninov: Yeah.

0:39Michal Gula: Quote, unquote.

0:40Tomáš Barnáš: Wait, that- that's really the first time when I, when I met you, or like, I don't know if you-

0:44Igor Vereninov: Yeah

0:44Tomáš Barnáš: or your colleagues. I spent like one hour in your booth, and I was just like-

0:48Igor Vereninov: That's so cool, man

0:48Tomáš Barnáš: thinking about it like, "Is this real?" It's like it was all like, "Can this be real?" Like, like, "Why they are doing it like 20 times more expensive-

0:58Igor Vereninov: Yeah

0:58Tomáš Barnáš: and you're claiming that it works?"

1:00Igor Vereninov: It was exactly like that, and like no one would believe us. But I think there were these like people that were like crazy enough to sort of like consider the possibility of this being real. You know, and they, and they would hang out on our booth and try to learn more. And we actually made a lot of sales that year, because like th- they felt like, "Okay, whatever. You know, I'm... If this thing really works, this is like a new paradigm. If it doesn't, maybe I'm... You know, I lost 700 euro." And then let's also think about like inflation for a moment here, yeah.

1:28Michal Gula: But is this the s- is that the story of, fake it till you make it, or, or it really w- worked-

1:33Igor Vereninov: No, no

1:33Michal Gula: from the very first time?

1:34Igor Vereninov: It wasn't, it did work. And like we offered a money back guarantee.

1:37Michal Gula: Okay.

1:37Igor Vereninov: Like we realized no one was gonna believe it ri- believe us, right?

1:40Michal Gula: Yeah.

1:41Igor Vereninov: So we say, "You can buy it here today. It's real. Here is the box. It's a real product. It's not a presentation, it's not a concept. It's a real product. You can buy it today. If you don't like it, we give you 30 days. You ship it a- you ship it back, we give you the money back." And that's usually when they were like, "Okay, yeah, why not? I sh- I should definitely try it." And that's how we made sales. And then we kept this tradition for many years. We had the Emlid shop where you can just come and buy our products, and that was a symbol that like we are transparent with our pricing. You know, there is nothing hidden. here is the product, you can just get it. yeah, that was... Like we were also s- just signaling like what's E- what's Emlid all about. Yeah, it's simple, it's easy to understand, it works, and we really believe in our product. We are happy to give your money back if, if you are unsatisfied.

2:26Michal Gula: For, for me, the aha moment was when... Like I, I, I wasn't like discussing the quality of, of the device, right?

2:32Igor Vereninov: Yeah.

2:33Michal Gula: The aha moment was when I realized that I don't need a separate controller or, or Windows, stupid Windows mobile. Like the stupidest system ever invented, right? For, for the-

2:43Igor Vereninov: Yeah

2:43Michal Gula: controlling of, of the-

2:44Igor Vereninov: Yeah, that's Reach RS, man

2:45Michal Gula: rover, right? So I can just plug the phone, it's working on a first time, it's connecting like very easily and directly. Th- that's, that's when I realized that like, okay, this is serious and this is good.

2:58Igor Vereninov: Yeah. But like we just looked at things and how they were, and we realized, okay, this is just not how things are supposed to be, and it's obvious that they are not supposed to be that way. And then we just rebuild it, you know, piece by piece. Okay, the receiver doesn't have to be that expensive. It doesn't have to be this industrial equipment. You don't need the controller. It's stupid. It's really expensive. You don't need batteries and carrying around like separate battery chargers for this camera batteries. Like let's just make it charge like a phone. And it's really like these are such simple things, I don't understand why... Like it's obvious that th- this should be done this way, and the same thing with our mobile apps, right?

3:36Michal Gula: It's obvious to you because you're looking at it from different perspective. But i- if you take these like big players, and not going to drop names, but they, they know, like they've been doing it for tens of years, rigidly working with, old surveyors-

3:53Igor Vereninov: Yeah

3:53Michal Gula: and, and these, these OGs of the industry. So they are not expecting innovations. They are expecting like the very precise outputs. They already know how to work with the equipment, so...

4:03Tomáš Barnáš: But actually, like I would just, catch this and say that, you did like a huge change in the industry with that, because you actually brought the devices which small companies would never be able to buy, or like they would skip it and try to like fake it till you make it, and, and sell their services without, like better, like, the accuracy and everything. But you really opened the market for, for the small ones. Therefore, it was so interesting for me because my company was like two years young in that time, and I wouldn't be able to pay 30K for, for a device like this. Like it was just like, no go. We did photogrammetry and we said like it's like great enough for those who want, and that's it. So for me, like seeing that and being able to purchase it in that time was really a game changer.

4:48Igor Vereninov: Oh, that, that's really great to hear. Like we started the company out of frustration with how things were working, and out of our own personal experience, like trying to use this gear, and we realized like there... It just, like there have to be like many more, you know, smaller companies, like other guys who are trying the same thing we're, we want to do, and they just can't. They can't afford it. They can't figure it out. Like let's build something for them, and it worked, yeah. So...

5:15Tomáš Barnáš: Yeah, it, it totally worked. It really hit me as a customer, so it was perfect match. And, not just that, but also design of thing. Because like I'm a designer. I was car designer be- before.

5:26Igor Vereninov: Yeah.

5:27Tomáš Barnáš: So when I saw it, it looked different. And also the one you have right now-

5:30Igor Vereninov: Yeah

5:30Tomáš Barnáš: in the hand. It's, it's different from design, from visuals, like two color split, and you're just like doing it nice.

5:38Igor Vereninov: Yeah. Thank you. Yeah, we just, we just love it. Like the, the company is built on, you know, the things should also look really good. and they should all look really consistent. So we are, we're, we want to make sure that you're having... Like it's very easy to understand what we do, and it's very easy to inter- to interact with our products. And it's like, and everything feels like you already know it, you know, like the app. You come to our booth, you take one of our receivers. It just, everything has to feel very Just, just simple, so it just works.

6:08Michal Gula: Yeah.

6:08Igor Vereninov: But at the same time we are, like, we, we're never forgetting that like, okay, these are high accuracy instruments, right? So in the latest generation we're really pushing the frontier of like, okay, what does... what can you have? Like, you can still have that simplicity, while at the same time having the cutting edge accuracy and like the latest tech in terms of GNSS and IMUs and like all that stuff, we're not trading it all for simplicity. Like the core positioning is like really, really good. Like, okay, 10 years ago it was not as good, but now this is, this is sort of state-of-the-art, but paired with the really simple workflows. And then speaking of kind of the change in, in INTERGEO, right? So there we were on a tiny booth and, trying to convince people that this is real. Now INTERGEO is largely like a GNSS, show, right? So there are many more customers. I think the industry's largely accepting that that change that we really helped to start and start... like started driving, it's, it's, it has arrived, it's here. and now the difference, like the biggest difference we're gonna have is gonna be in the software layer and in the workflow, and then like what kind of company you have behind it. So I'm really glad that we are through this change. Some companies still haven't received the, the message, I think. But-... like largely as an industry we understand that, okay, this is a tool that is now... it's not a precious instrument that, you know, only surveyor can use. It's something that everyone who needs accuracy can easily get started on, can afford. Multiple, like teams can use it in like in a collaborative environment. We can use these tools reliably. so yeah.

7:43Michal Gula: Who, who is, who's your main customer? Because as we mentioned before, like these like old surveying companies, I think they still prefer like these original, brands-

7:56Igor Vereninov: Oh

7:56Michal Gula: coming. So, so how does it look like? Because we are coming from the reality capturing business-

8:01Igor Vereninov: Yeah

8:01Michal Gula: right? We are not surveyors. So that's why I'm actually asking like is your... Is the majority of your customers from surveying business or are they from reality capturing or are they from construction for example or?

8:14Igor Vereninov: they are,.. I think so. There are many surveyors that use our products. We really like we build the product for much rather for non-surveyor users. So we're focused on simplicity li- rather than having like every be- wh- bell and whistle, you know, that exists over there, every feature. Like that's not our focus. We want tools that are simple. And then there are many surveyors that appreciate it because like let's be honest, like 95% of the jobs you're measuring points and lines or, or staking something out and this is the core workflow. So there are surveyors that appreciate it, but that's not our, core audience. Like we still have a lot of guys from reality capture from, from drone mapping. Ground control is- necessary everywhere, right? And you want a tool that is like easy to use. but now what we are seeing like the increased adoption in construction. So I think we were able to cross a line, in terms of like it being really, compre- like it can do so many things on the construction side, but it's like easy enough to use and you can really quickly train people how to use it. And now we're seeing like in a mass adoption in construction companies, civil engineering, utilities, all of that, and there is just this growing and growing demand-

9:29Michal Gula: Mm

9:29Igor Vereninov: just out of pure efficiencies we can drive. So.

9:31Michal Gula: it was few weeks or months ago that you announced that you released the, the NTRIP corrections for... I just wanted to ask this.

9:39Igor Vereninov: Yeah. Yeah. And it was, it was actually really big news for us. So just to kind of bring everyone up to speed, we announced the partnership with Point One Navigation. It's a global player, in correction space. and what we did together is, we basically changed how GPS receivers are, are sold. So now when you buy an Emlid product you get one year of high quality network RTK corrections already included in like with every reach, and we are actually extending that offer to all our existing customers. So if you bought an RS2, RS2+, RS3, RX, so if you have one of those receivers you can go to Emlid Flow and just press a button, activate, and you receive your one year of free centimeter accurate network corrections.

10:27Michal Gula: I will do it today.

10:28Igor Vereninov: Yeah? Yeah, yeah. I mean please record yourself doing it.

10:35Michal Gula: He will do.

10:35Igor Vereninov: Yeah. Um-

10:37Michal Gula: I'm having an interview with... at the booth, so I will do it, uh-

10:40Igor Vereninov: Okay

10:40Michal Gula: during the interview. You will show me how to do it.

10:42Igor Vereninov: But like what we saw, like what was the biggest, you know, motivation to do it, right? So I'm at a trade show, I'm speaking to a customer. The customer has, a earth moving business, maybe doesn't really know about GPS or calls a surveyor, and then he looks at it and says like, "Oh, this looks so cool." You know? "This... I really like this receiver. That's just like 2,000 euro and I have centimeter accuracy." And you're like, "Yeah, yeah, yeah." And then he's like, "Well, yeah, be honest with me. There has to be a subscription for software." And I'm like, "Yeah, you know what? If you want to have the advanced features, yeah, that's true. It's 25 euro. You pay for the Emlid Flow Pro features." And he's like, "Yeah, maybe I'm not the biggest fan of subscriptions, but like it's, it's fair, you know. It's... I, I can see it's comprehensive. The software is, is all right." And this moment I realized that like he's sold on the idea of doing GPS himself, but like... And then he asked me like, "Do I need something else?" And I need to explain, "Oh, by the way, you also need corrections. And then there are three different providers in your area. You need to reach out to them over email. The pricing is not really known, but it's gonna be around 1,000 buck per year."

11:43Michal Gula: It, it's even more expensive than our subscription.

11:45Igor Vereninov: Yeah, it's more expensive and it's, it's half the price of the receiver and then you need to remember your port number, the four letter for the mount point, and then you need to enter what some kind of a URL. And then-

11:56Michal Gula: You lost him

11:56Igor Vereninov: and I lost him.

11:58Michal Gula: You lost him.

11:58Igor Vereninov: And you know, that was the moment where I realized like we are losing so many potential customers and like user that can really benefit from it just because of this complexity associated with getting corrections. Like I don't think there is enough appreciation like inside our bubble how messed up it is. Like we... You need... It's 2026 and I need to enter a port number. It's like configuring dial-up modem. Like it's- It, it cannot be this way. Like, we all know how to do it, right? We can do it. But like, for someone uninitiated-

12:32Michal Gula: Y- y- you want to cut out the steps of the onboarding or, or, or like-

12:39Igor Vereninov: Yeah

12:39Michal Gula: starting something new.

12:40Igor Vereninov: Yeah.

12:41Michal Gula: And, and this is, like, stupid steps because especially in, in reality capturing, there are guys that have, like, zero experience with-

12:48Igor Vereninov: Yeah

12:48Michal Gula: surveying. I'm not saying it's, it's good. It's a reality. And if you want them to measure targets, you cannot, like, bother them with things that should be set up automatically.

12:59Igor Vereninov: Yeah. Exactly.

13:00Tomáš Barnáš: But when I was reading this, it was for me exactly the same step as you did in 2017, where you turned the device or, like, expensive devices into something affordable for people. Now you are coming with the correction, which is another, like, problem, I would call it, problem for, for many, people. Because also again, like, seeing our, projects, once upon a time you are in a different country.

13:25Igor Vereninov: Yeah.

13:25Tomáš Barnáš: So do you want to pass the all, assignment and registration, which sometimes if it's a button which you click and register, it's fine, but many countries they still have it, like, for a manual approval.

13:37Igor Vereninov: Yeah.

13:37Tomáš Barnáš: So you need to send the request. The request will be probably processed in two, three days, if it's not a weekday, a weekend.

13:45Igor Vereninov: Yeah.

13:45Tomáš Barnáš: And then, like, when I get a job on Friday, it would be good to make it on Saturday, like, no chance. It's like...

13:50Igor Vereninov: So how, how much is it after the one year? so after one year you can buy, like, a top-up pack. Like, we recommend that customers get the three year is the best deal, and it's 1,200 for three years. So effectively you end up with, like, around €300 per year, including, like, if you count the free year in. So it's, like, super affordable for a network RTK correction. and then the idea is that you just don't have to think about if you... Like, there are multiple cu- m- many customers that choose to just, like, "Okay, I'm buying the receiver. I'm gonna pay for the three years," meaning that, like, you get the free year plus the three years that you bought, and especially for four years you forget about, like, you know, managing corrections or whatever. And, I think this is increasingly how this equipment will be sold, and I'm just expecting other companies to, to do-

14:38Michal Gula: So-

14:38Igor Vereninov: this. It's-

14:39Michal Gula: Since, since you already-

14:39Igor Vereninov: it's obvious thing

14:40Michal Gula: since you already have a client in a subscription to the, to the, like, upgrade to your-

14:47Igor Vereninov: Yeah

14:47Michal Gula: software and you have, him on a subscription to corrections, have you thought about making the whole system being a subscription sy- sy- system? Like, just rent the device with all the settings from us?

15:03Igor Vereninov: I think that's... Like, that's the natural next step, for sure. Like, I don't think this is something for sort of, like, SMB individual customers, but maybe for larger customers. For enterprise we can be like, "We're gonna provide you everything together in, in-

15:20Michal Gula: And you, you will get, like, every two or three years-

15:22Igor Vereninov: Every device

15:23Michal Gula: new device from us and yeah.

15:24Igor Vereninov: Yeah, yeah. Yeah. That's something that's, that's, that's on our minds, but, like, we still want to... Okay, let's make sure that our software... Like, okay, the receivers are mature enough, but, like, the corrections, the software, everything is, like, mature enough to a point where we innovate on the business model rather than focus on the product itself. And, like, if you look through our history, like, it's cool that you mentioned, you know, the, the 2017 with the, with the RS launch, but it was always not just... Like, I think that anyone who looks at Emlid and thinks like, "Oh, they made stuff more affordable," kinda doesn't see the second part of the story is, like, that we simplified them radically. It's like our goal is we want to give this to a new audience. So first of all, it needs to be more affordable. That's the first barrier. But the second barrier, it needs to be, like, simple enough so they, they can actually use it. Like, the more usage base you have, the, the easier the product needs to be to use. So we always move these things, like, hand-in-hand together, like corrections. Like, on one hand, you're right. Like, we are making these, corrections way more affordable, accessible, eas-... But we are also making them much easier to get because it's just one button in the app, and the first year is like you don't need to leave your credit card details, nothing. You just press activate, and you get it. There is no automatic renewal, so you can... Like, it's completely like, you know, no strings attached. You can try it. So we're doing the simplification and at the same time making stuff more affordable, and that's, that's also the story of, like, getting rid of controllers instead of, doing, like, iOS apps. And, and then the final frontier for what we are aiming to do, you asked us about... Also, like, asked me about the, okay, what's our audience, right? We are seeing a lot of potential in the construction industry. They really like that they can equip more teams because it's affordable. It's simple enough. So these industries usually have a high turnover. They cannot train an, every new guy on a complex system. It's impossible.

17:15Michal Gula: Yeah.

17:16Igor Vereninov: Like, they don't... They just end up not using these, these tools. But with Emlid, it's possible. It's easy enough. It's an app on your phone. So then there is the, the third remaining factor is like, okay, how do you make sure these guys are actually... Like, maybe they only received limited training. How do you make sure that all the actually important details, you know, like coordinate system set up, localization, like, these things they- they still exist. They're, they're effect of, like, of the... of our reality. Like, y- we need to configure that. How do we make it so that these guys don't, like... They can focus on their job, and someone else focuses on the technical details of how this job is being done.

17:51Michal Gula: I have one-

17:52Igor Vereninov: Yeah

17:52Michal Gula: last tricky question for you.

17:54Igor Vereninov: Go for it.

17:54Michal Gula: We can see tons of SLAM s- solutions here. is there anybody who asked you, like, "Guys, could, could you create a RTK device for us, for our SLAM scanner?"

18:07Igor Vereninov: we have partnership with some SLAM scanner manufacturers, like with Emesent. They use our, RSs, uh-

18:14Michal Gula: But they are, like, mounted on the top, right?

18:16Igor Vereninov: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

18:17Michal Gula: But, like, really included in a, in a device.

18:20Igor Vereninov: not really. I think we don't really work at that level. So like we never wanted to white label, we never wanted to be the technology provider. Emlid is the strongest building, like a well-integrated hardware, software product and a really good user experience.

18:36Michal Gula: Mm.

18:36Igor Vereninov: We're not an OEM supplier. Like, there are many things that we are not.

18:39Michal Gula: Yeah.

18:39Igor Vereninov: And we'd rather leave something like that to the companies that specialize on that, and we'll focus on, on, on our customers and how to build the most-

18:48Michal Gula: Th-

18:48Igor Vereninov: exciting thing for them.

18:49Michal Gula: And thank you so much.

18:50Tomáš Barnáš: And you brought us your new product, right, for our-

18:53Igor Vereninov: Yeah

18:53Tomáš Barnáš: viewers. You can see that Emlid-

18:55Michal Gula: The isotonic drink and the-... and the beer.

18:57Tomáš Barnáš: And it is now produced.

18:58Igor Vereninov: Yeah. But we have to,.. I always think like, you know, guys, y- you move the kinda the, the media in the industry forward. We move the product in the industry forward, and we all have this like shared responsibility to kinda bring it into the modern age-

19:13Tomáš Barnáš: Yeah

19:13Igor Vereninov: right? What we're doing here. And then we feel, okay, now let's have isotonic drinks. Let's have a coffee rave on our booth. Let's have some, you know, modern stuff. Maybe, you know, others will follow.

19:24Tomáš Barnáš: Yeah, this is cool actually. Like, just like fun fact to it, I don't know if you know about it, but Volkswagen is a car manufacturer-

19:30Igor Vereninov: Y-

19:30Tomáš Barnáš: but they are selling more sausages than cars. They are producing their, like, curry sausage here in Germany.

19:37Igor Vereninov: Really?

19:38Tomáš Barnáš: And for the amount of sausages they sell per year, it's higher amount than cars. So just like, I was working there for a long time, so-

19:46Igor Vereninov: So you know it-

19:47Tomáš Barnáš: I know this

19:48Igor Vereninov: firsthand.

19:48Tomáš Barnáš: Yeah.

19:49Igor Vereninov: How the sausage is made.

19:50Tomáš Barnáš: Yeah, yeah, exactly. Like from the car is... Oh, no, no. It was just that, I see this, bridge, like OEMs, when you mentioned like-

19:58Igor Vereninov: Yeah

19:58Tomáš Barnáš: now we have to

19:59Michal Gula: I- is there any last information, news or, or something for people to, to look forward to? Something you wanna mention at the end of this discussion?

20:07Igor Vereninov: so I think obviously the biggest news are the Emlid corrections. So I really recommend that, like, if you are an existing Emlid customer, you can go to Emlid Flow and just click a button, and you have a free year of network RTK. I think that's, that's pretty cool. So just like, I mean, give it a go-

20:22Michal Gula: Mm

20:22Igor Vereninov: see how it works for you. yeah. And then every Emlid receiver that we sell today, that's also... that comes with the corrections built in. That's now an kinda an inseparable part of-

20:34Michal Gula: Mm

20:34Igor Vereninov: what we offer to our customers, and I would really like, sort of everyone to know that, that it's now way easier to use RTK. So if you are on the edge to use it or not-... but give, give Emlid a go.

20:47Tomáš Barnáš: Book-

20:47Igor Vereninov: Luke-

20:48Tomáš Barnáš: Thank you for coming.

20:48Michal Gula: Thank you very much.

20:49Igor Vereninov: Yeah, guys. It's always a pleasure.

20:50Michal Gula: Have a great day.

20:51Igor Vereninov: Yeah. I can spend here all day.

20:53Tomáš Barnáš: Come over.

20:54Igor Vereninov: Happy.

20:54Michal Gula: You can come later.

20:55Igor Vereninov: Just bring more beers.

20:56Michal Gula: Yeah.