Four FJD Trion scanners, from a floor-plan SLAM to a terrestrial scanner in disguise – Eduard Chiru, FJD

0:00Michal Gula: I can see SLAMs everywhere.

0:03Eduard Chiru: Yes. Basically, yes. And actually we have five different-... new models of SLAM, so it's, it's quite a lot to take in.

0:09Michal Gula: Why, why do you think it's, it's, it's, the case that, like, there is so many different companies doing the SLAMs?

0:15Eduard Chiru: Yeah, well, e- every stage of every project needs a, a reality capture system. So basically I think everybody's trying to get into this, flow of, of doing the, the SLAM scanners. We as, as a company that creates this, the type of solutions, we have, let's say the essential or the entry-level scanners, and then we have, we have the more professional, grade scanners, and I, I will present them a bit later. But I think nowadays every project relies on that 3D model and that, reality capture, systems, right?

0:49Michal Gula: Maybe you can show me what you have.

0:51Eduard Chiru: Yeah, of course. So for the essential, SLAM scanners, we have the new FJD Trion C1. This is basically a device that, combines the lidar and the, and the laser measurement.

1:03Michal Gula: This is the very new line, right?

1:05Eduard Chiru: Yes.

1:05Michal Gula: I, I have not seen the, the C before, no.

1:06Eduard Chiru: Yes, it's, it's, it's very new.

1:07Michal Gula: Okay.

1:08Eduard Chiru: Yeah. It's, just released basically. With this one we, we can measure apartments up to 200 meter squares basically, and it's very, let's say, easy to use. Everybody can use it. Everybody can, can, let's say use the, the basic, it's, it's a basic workflow. We have the, the lidar, the, the laser. We can-

1:28Michal Gula: What kind of a lidar is it? It looks very different compared to others.

1:32Eduard Chiru: Yeah. Yeah. It's a, it's a lidar. It has, 240,000 points per second with a range up to, up to six meters, so it's a, let's say, different lidar than a Livox or Hesai or the, the lidars that we are, let's say, used to. But it can, it can generate the, the point cloud, and then later in the software we can generate the mesh, the, the Gaussian.

1:51Michal Gula: So, you said it's up to 200 meters, square, square meters of-

1:55Eduard Chiru: Of, of-

1:55Michal Gula: apartments

1:56Eduard Chiru: apartment, yeah, so it's-

1:57Michal Gula: probably maybe just indoors, right?

1:59Eduard Chiru: Indoor.

1:59Michal Gula: You wouldn't go-

2:00Eduard Chiru: Only indoor

2:00Michal Gula: scanning out-

2:01Eduard Chiru: Only indoor

2:01Michal Gula: outside.

2:02Eduard Chiru: Yeah. It's basically for interior designers that want to have the quick 2D floor plan or to do some AI rendering of a, of a space, where to put a couch, where to put a carpet, and so on. This is the right solution for, for it.

2:14Michal Gula: What's the price range of this?

2:16Eduard Chiru: It's around 2,000 USD, so it's, it's relatively cheap.

2:18Michal Gula: Okay, so it's, it's very like-

2:20Eduard Chiru: Yeah, yeah, yeah

2:21Michal Gula: affordable.

2:21Eduard Chiru: Yeah.

2:21Michal Gula: does it come with, with some, subscription to the software or-

2:25Eduard Chiru: Yes, yes

2:25Michal Gula: how does it work?

2:26Eduard Chiru: So it comes, you have, you need a subscription to our FJD Trion Creative Portal. Basically, it's a, it's a cloud platform. you send the data from here into that creative portal, and basically with a few clicks you can get a 2D floor plan. You can get a basic, BIM model of the, of the apartment that you have scanned. So it's pretty intuitive. It's pretty easy to use. And, you have all these reports and all the, all this, let's say outputs that you can generate with, with our FJD Trion Creative Portal. So-

2:54Michal Gula: How mu- how much is the subscription to the software?

2:57Eduard Chiru: a few hundred euros, so it's, it's, it's quite, uh-

3:00Michal Gula: It's for a year?

3:01Eduard Chiru: Sorry?

3:02Michal Gula: 200 euros for a year or per month?

3:03Eduard Chiru: No, it's, it's, it uses some credits, and then based on that credit you can basically do the-

3:08Michal Gula: Oh, okay

3:08Eduard Chiru: yeah, the, the work. Included in the price it's, are also some credits, so basically when you buy this you can start working immediately because you have the, the few credits to use. But later, yeah, you need to, to pay some subscriptions.

3:21Michal Gula: Great.

3:21Eduard Chiru: Yeah. Yeah.

3:21Michal Gula: What's the other device that you have?

3:23Eduard Chiru: Yeah. So this was the C1. this is the V4e Go. So basically for people who want to go a bit beyond the C1 and maybe scan outside or scan, larger areas of, apartments or, or buildings, they can use the V4e Go. Basically, we have a similar model as, as this one, but right now we have some improvements for it. we have a base plate. we have a magnetic phone mount to, to mount the phone. Of course, GNSS receiver so we can have the geo-referencing of the, of the point cloud. the lidar, it's, 154, thousand points per second, so it's, it's, it's pretty, it's pretty good. With a range of up to 25, 30 meters, of course depending on the reflectivity of the, of the objects.

4:13Michal Gula: Mm.

4:13Eduard Chiru: But for, again, this, covers also the, the entry level scanners market. So basically it's very easy to use. With just a few clicks you can send the data to Creative Portal and get the floor plan, 3D Gaussian splatting, and so on. So it's, pretty straightforward.

4:30Michal Gula: When you say you, you get the floor plan, what do you mean by that?

4:33Eduard Chiru: It's basically a 2D floor plan. You can, uh-

4:36Michal Gula: The CAD drawing?

4:38Eduard Chiru: Sorry?

4:38Michal Gula: The CAD drawing?

4:39Eduard Chiru: Yes, yes. Basically we have the preview on our Creative Portal-

4:42Michal Gula: Okay

4:42Eduard Chiru: and you can export that, that preview. you can also modify if, uh-

4:47Michal Gula: So it's, like, automatically generated-

4:48Eduard Chiru: Exactly

4:49Michal Gula: from, from the point cloud?

4:49Eduard Chiru: Yeah, yeah. So we are trying to, to make these workflows automated, and we try to implement as much AI as possible right now because this is the, the trend. And, with the help of AI you, you can, we can get the, the 2D floor plan-

5:03Michal Gula: Okay

5:03Eduard Chiru: done automatically.

5:04Michal Gula: And, and you can see like... Of course you can see walls, but can you-

5:07Eduard Chiru: Yeah

5:07Michal Gula: see, like, doors and windows on the floor plan or?

5:09Eduard Chiru: Yeah, you can add them. You can add them. Y- Basically, you scan the whole place, you know where every door is, and later in the, in that Creative Portal you can add the doors, add the windows, and finish the, the 2D drawing.

5:20Michal Gula: Okay, but, but, but you said that the floor plan's generated automatically. So-

5:23Eduard Chiru: Yeah

5:23Michal Gula: it's coming only, like, with the walls.

5:25Eduard Chiru: With the walls, yeah.

5:26Michal Gula: Okay.

5:26Eduard Chiru: Without doors and, uh-

5:27Michal Gula: Okay. Okay, okay

5:28Eduard Chiru: and the windows. But you can add them, you can modify the walls and, and things like that. And then to have-

5:32Michal Gula: But it still help. It still helps.

5:33Eduard Chiru: Of course. Of course. Yeah, to let's say remove some of the manual work that you have to do.

5:37Michal Gula: What if, what if I scan, like, a family house with multiple floors at once?

5:41Eduard Chiru: Yeah, that, that's possible. You, you will have the-

5:43Michal Gula: It, it will recognize the floors and-

5:45Eduard Chiru: It, it will. Yeah, yeah

5:46Michal Gula: create a door and then you can-

5:47Eduard Chiru: It will scan all.

5:48Michal Gula: let's say edit each, each one of them and have the, the final result. Yeah.

5:51Eduard Chiru: Are you playing also with the idea of, of generating not only the, the CAD files, like the drawings, but also like a basic, BIM model out of it? We have, we also have this, this feature to create the BIM model, but right now it's, it cannot be, let's say, exported, for Revit-

6:09Michal Gula: Okay

6:09Eduard Chiru: for, for further, modeling. But only as a preview, yeah, we can, we can generate that, that BIM model in the Creative Portal. You can- Look around it. You can, you can make some, let's say, videos if you want to present the, the, the space and so on. But it's only on our Creative Portal,.. But who knows, in the future we can develop such, uh-

6:29Michal Gula: I'm, I'm pretty confident about the future with-

6:30Eduard Chiru: Yeah, I think, yeah, yeah

6:31Michal Gula: with the... Yeah, yeah. so what's the price range for this?

6:34Eduard Chiru: The price range for this is around, 2,500 to 3,000, depending on the-

6:39Michal Gula: Okay, so it's more or less very similar to, to the first one.

6:42Eduard Chiru: Yes, the, the,.. Yeah, but if you want more flexibility, if you want also to scan some things outside, this is the, the best op- the better option because that, the, the C1 cannot scan outside. But with this one, of course, you have the GNSS and you can, you can scan outside. You can use that, this GNSS as a standalone GNSS, so that's a plus.

7:00Michal Gula: But, but w- with the C1 you said that it's, like, around, 2K.

7:04Eduard Chiru: Yeah, yeah.

7:04Michal Gula: With doors.

7:05Eduard Chiru: Yeah.

7:05Michal Gula: This is, like, two...

7:07Eduard Chiru: Point five.

7:07Michal Gula: Point five

7:08Eduard Chiru: Three. Around, yeah.

7:09Michal Gula: So, I'm just wondering, like, why did you feel like there is need for another device- in such a small range? Because $500, like, it's, it's, like-

7:19Eduard Chiru: Yeah

7:19Michal Gula: not a big of a difference.

7:20Eduard Chiru: Yeah. It's doesn't seem that much, but for some, let's say, price-sensitive market, this could make a difference, and we try to cover, let's say, each, type of customer and each, each domain. Yeah.

7:33Michal Gula: Okay.

7:34Eduard Chiru: That's why we try to develop as, as, as many products as possible, to cover each of the customers' needs basically. That's what we try to do. Yeah.

7:42Michal Gula: with the C1 you said, like, it's fine for up to twel- 200-

7:46Eduard Chiru: Metres

7:47Michal Gula: square meters. What about this one? Like, what type of a site or how big?

7:51Eduard Chiru: I think you can triple it easily.

7:53Michal Gula: Triple it.

7:53Eduard Chiru: Yeah, yeah, yeah. In terms of apartment and in terms of, outdoor, let's say usage. Because if you are using the GNSS receiver, the data will be georeferenced and will stay, let's say, in that three-centimeter accuracy that this scanner has. So you can scan maybe,.. If you want to scan a full house, you can do, in one go with the, with the V4e Go.

8:13Michal Gula: The typical pro-

8:13Eduard Chiru: Outside and inside

8:14Michal Gula: the typical project with the, low tier or low level of, of, scanners, if I go outside, it's the range and it's the, black surfaces, right? So-

8:27Eduard Chiru: Yeah

8:27Michal Gula: how, how do, will it work, like, if I want to scan the, the family house, I go outside. like, up to how many meters I can rely on the data that they will be, like, dense enough and good enough?

8:40Eduard Chiru: Well, with good reflectivity, this scanner can reach up to, 50 meters. But let's say in day-to-day conditions, you can-

8:47Michal Gula: But usable data will be?

8:49Eduard Chiru: Exactly. Up to 20, 25 meters.

8:51Michal Gula: Okay.

8:51Eduard Chiru: That's the, that's the range of the scanner. Yeah.

8:53Michal Gula: Okay.

8:54Eduard Chiru: Yeah.

8:54Michal Gula: I'm just guessing that, it will struggle with, like, very black surfaces.

8:58Eduard Chiru: Yeah. Also windows, of course. Reflectivity it's, we cannot get rid of it. But, of course in the software we can just remove or filter some of the noise, let's say. Yeah.

9:07Michal Gula: But this is not a bug, this i- this is simply the physics, right? With the-

9:11Eduard Chiru: Of course

9:11Michal Gula: with these lower levels-

9:12Eduard Chiru: Yeah

9:12Michal Gula: scanners

9:13Eduard Chiru: we cannot avoid physics.

9:14Michal Gula: Yeah, yeah.

9:15Eduard Chiru: Yeah.

9:15Michal Gula: Of course. Of course.

9:17Eduard Chiru: Yeah.

9:17Michal Gula: So can you show me some from the higher tier?

9:19Eduard Chiru: Yeah. So this one, the C1 and, V4e Go were in the, were in the es- essential tier, so more entry level. And now we move to the professional-grade tier. This is our new X1, FJD Trion X1. It... This one packs a lot, packs a lot. It has a integrated screen.

9:41Michal Gula: Okay.

9:41Eduard Chiru: It has a new, a new sensor. It has, some integrated cameras for a visual SLAM, for 3D Gaussian splatting, which is, a thing, a trending thing right now, right?

9:50Michal Gula: Today it's a, it's a must-have.

9:51Eduard Chiru: Yeah, of course. Of course. So also with the, with the GNSS receiver for outdoor work. Basically, with this one we try to, to address the, let's say the site managers or very, complex sites where there are multiple teams that work together. Basically, you can create a task in Creative Portal. You, you place it in the, in the scanner. You follow the scanning path and the, the task that is already done by, I don't know, the project, project manager let's say. You send the data again to, Creative Portal, and from there you can do all sorts of reports. You can,.. Maybe if you see a crack in a wall, you can, just, point at it. You can take a picture, and then the, the manager can see the, where the problems are in the, in the scanning site.

10:37Michal Gula: When, when you say you can take the picture, it's, it's only about, like, keeping it, focused on something you wanna capture? Or do you need to, like, click some button or?

10:46Eduard Chiru: No, you just point at the-

10:47Michal Gula: Okay

10:48Eduard Chiru: object, and with the crosshair on the, on the screen you place it directly on the problem. You can also record a voice message. We have a-

10:56Michal Gula: Oh, so with the click on the screen you will actually put there, like, some, some point of interest or, or something like that, right?

11:02Eduard Chiru: Exactly. Exactly.

11:03Michal Gula: Okay.

11:03Eduard Chiru: Yeah. We also have a small microphone. You can also record your, the issue or pre- presentation.

11:09Michal Gula: Okay, okay, okay.

11:10Eduard Chiru: And the thing is that if you have a team that has, let's say s- multiple people from different countries working in the same team, you can record in your own language and then in the Creative Portal the AI will translate-

11:23Michal Gula: Nice

11:23Eduard Chiru: the, the... Yeah, exactly.

11:24Michal Gula: Okay

11:24Eduard Chiru: the, the recording into the, the language of the, of the manager, and basically so he can understand the, the problem.

11:29Michal Gula: But it will, it will... I, I'm just guessing, like, it will not only translate, but it will create a transcript, right? So-

11:34Eduard Chiru: Of course. Of course.

11:35Michal Gula: Okay.

11:35Eduard Chiru: Yeah, yeah. Of course. Yeah. So right now we are, taking advantage of the, of the AI and trying to, to use it and to implement it as much as possible in our devices.

11:45Michal Gula: I think that's something that everybody's expecting because-

11:47Eduard Chiru: Exactly

11:47Michal Gula: last year it was... Like, for everybody it was new.

11:50Eduard Chiru: Yeah.

11:50Michal Gula: everybody was trying to, to explain, like, what we are going to do with the AI, but this year like, "Hey, guys, let's, let's see what, what you can do."

11:58Eduard Chiru: Yeah. It, it... Right now we are, we are starting to see the, the results, yeah, yeah-

12:01Michal Gula: Yeah, yeah

12:01Eduard Chiru: with the AI.

12:01Michal Gula: Perfect. Perfect.

12:02Eduard Chiru: Yeah. So this is the new, X1. and then we have the, the big boy, which is the T1. I think you can see it.

12:17Michal Gula: Yeah.

12:17Eduard Chiru: And basically what we have done here, we have done a combination between, SLAM and terrestrial scanners. So basically- this can be used as a SLAM. You can walk around the, the site to scan it. But if you want millimeter accuracy or maybe you want a denser... If you have a POI, a point of interest that you want to have more detail, more points, more, more, accuracy, you can just place the, the scanner on the tripod. You can maybe do two, three station, depending on, on the, on the needs.

12:49Michal Gula: Okay.

12:49Eduard Chiru: So basically, the scanner will align those, those stations, and this can work like a terrestrial laser scanner.

12:54Michal Gula: So you are basically faking the terrestrial scanning. how much more accurate will it be?

13:01Eduard Chiru: Yeah, so this is the point. in the terrestrial mode, the accuracy, it's four millimeters at 10 meters.

13:07Michal Gula: Four millimeters at 10 meters-

13:09Eduard Chiru: Yes

13:09Michal Gula: is pretty good.

13:10Eduard Chiru: Is pretty good, or eight millimeters at 30 meters.

13:13Michal Gula: Okay.

13:13Eduard Chiru: So that's a pretty good accuracy, and in the, in the mobile mode, we can reach up to one centimeter in terms of accuracy, right? So for a very complex project, for very big, work sites, where there's that need of millimeter accuracy, you can just use the, the T1 on the tripod and, and get the job done. Of course, this is, our most professional, scanner, so the price, it's, it's, it's a bit higher than the Essential or even the X1.

13:39Michal Gula: Don't be afraid to tell the price.

13:41Eduard Chiru: But of course, yeah. The prices are around, let's say $25,000. Yeah, so it's, uh-

13:47Michal Gula: Still very interesting.

13:48Eduard Chiru: Yeah, yeah, yeah. So this is our new, our new T1. also with, of course, integrated, GNSS, integrated cameras for visual SLAM, also in the back for the colorization. So basically, a terrestrial scanner in disguise.

14:04Michal Gula: It looks like the GNSS antenna is, is, like, in a way of the, of the scanner, so, uh-

14:09Eduard Chiru: no, no, no. The scanner is rotating, so it, it, that doesn't reach the... We also made, a special, let's say, blind spot to, to accommodate that so the, this, uh-

14:21Michal Gula: Yeah, because you know where the antenna is-

14:23Eduard Chiru: Exactly

14:23Michal Gula: so you, you just remove points-

14:24Eduard Chiru: Yeah, exactly

14:24Michal Gula: automatically from the-

14:25Eduard Chiru: Yeah, yeah, so it won't appear in the, in the scan. Yeah, but this is our, our T1. This is our, let's say, new product for, for this, for this year. Uh-

14:36Michal Gula: s- sorry, I wanted to ask, when you are in the TLS mode, how long would you recommend to scan each position?

14:43Eduard Chiru: About 30 seconds for each position, yeah, yeah, and then you move. You wait a bit for the, for the scanner to, to stitch the, the new position. You stay again 30 seconds, and then you can move. It's the-

14:53Michal Gula: So it's not, it's not enough only to position the scanner. You have to, like, press some button to let it know that it's now in a TLS mode, yeah?

15:02Eduard Chiru: Yeah, exactly, exactly.

15:03Michal Gula: Okay.

15:03Eduard Chiru: In a new position and it needs to do some recalibration, and then you wait 30 seconds for the, for the actual scanning, and then you can move to the, to the next station.

15:11Michal Gula: So could the, could the workflow be like, okay, I'm, I'm standing with a, in a position with the, in a TLS mode. Then I take it on, on my arm. I walk, like, 10 meters, for example. I put it down, do again the TLS-

15:24Eduard Chiru: Yeah

15:25Michal Gula: mode and continue with that?

15:26Eduard Chiru: Yeah, this is basically the, the workflow. Yeah.

15:28Michal Gula: Okay.

15:28Eduard Chiru: And if you have the... If you also want to scan with the, with the mobile mode, maybe it's good if you have somebody to, to carry this with, with you, or not, you can take it yourself. And when you need to, to place the scanner on the... If you reach that POI that needs millimeter accuracy, you can just place the, place the tripod, stop the scanning, place the scanner on the tripod, press again to restart the scanning, and it will recognize the, the features, and it will scan in the, in the terrestrial mode.

15:59Michal Gula: Very interesting.

15:59Eduard Chiru: So that's the... Yeah, that's the, the workflow. So, yeah, this is about the, the T1.

16:06Michal Gula: Eduard, thank you very much. Like, this is really interesting.

16:09Eduard Chiru: Yeah.

16:09Michal Gula: I would like to see also how, Gaussian splats look from-

16:13Eduard Chiru: Of course. Yeah

16:13Michal Gula: from the-

16:14Eduard Chiru: We have improved them so much

16:15Michal Gula: hardware and software.

16:16Eduard Chiru: Yeah.

16:17Michal Gula: I'm looking forward to, to see those.

16:19Eduard Chiru: Yeah, yeah.

16:19Michal Gula: Great. Thank you for that, and-

16:20Eduard Chiru: Yeah

16:21Michal Gula: just enjoy the, the rest of the show, and-

16:23Eduard Chiru: Thank you

16:23Michal Gula: good luck with, with your pro- product line.

16:26Eduard Chiru: Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.

16:26Michal Gula: Perfect.

16:27Eduard Chiru: Bye. Bye.

16:27Michal Gula: Have a good day.